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Message sent by: "steven grubbs" sgrubbs@dnsonline.net
Jim,
Never argue with your LPO!!!
Please don't get me wrong about the differences between Salem and NN.
Salem is a truly magnificent ship as was NN. There are two important
differences between the two however. One is that while NN was growing old
gracefully, she did sport some 'laugh lines' that middle aged ladies tend
to get. i.e. her badly worn teak deck. Does that mean she was any less
beautiful than Salem or D.M.?? Not hardly. I find as approach my 50th
birthday, I think that older women are more attractive, and more mature,
and therefore more desirable to me than a 20 year old. Salem did not live
long enough to be as finely polished and well tuned as NN.
The other difference between the two is that Salem was 'sanitized' of her
personality when she was laid up. I am talking about the little things
that sailors do to their spaces and equipment to make it their own. NN
fortunately lived a long and fruitful life and did not suffer the ignominy
of early retirement. So the 'personalization' process continued
uninterrupted for almost 27 years.
I had the privilege of serving on a pair of sister ships, Iowa and
Wisconsin. I found it amazing that the basic personality of both ships
lived on and was carried on by their 'new' crews even after almost 30
years of mothballs. An example if I can explain it is that Iowa was rushed
to completion in 1943. Everything they did was in a hurry in order to get
her to the war zone. The same thing happened in 1983. Wisconsin on the
other hand was always the 'red headed step child' who was always a day
late and a dollar short. By the time she was commissioned, the war against
Japan was in it's final stages, and the rush to complete her had passed.
In fact she was lucky even to be completed. The same thing happened in the
Korean War. Almost too late to participate. Then in the 80's ditto again.
Lucky to be reactivated, she was only in commission, 20 months. Wisconsin
by the way, while being the most pristine warship I have ever been on, had
the personality of a bent trash can!! As much as I love the BB's, I do not
miss being on that ship!!
I don't know how to put this so please don't take me wrong. But NN was a
garbage scow compared to Wisconsin. As spotless clean and meticulously
maintained as NN was, she didn't come close to Wisconsin. But therein lies
a problem. Wisconsin didn't work as a ship. NN did. The joke on Iowa about
Wisconsin was," What ships make up the Wisconsin Battlegroup? "
Answer; 3 tugs, a destroyer tender, and a floating dry dock. She couldn't
hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle when it came time to shoot. You
weren't allowed to fix anything, because you might get dirty in the
process. And heaven help you, if you got dirty. We could wear our
dungarees for
about three washings before they would be declared "too faded' The
command was so wrapped up in looks that it forgot what Battlewagons do for
a living.
Trust me, I'm not making any of this up. Ask anyone who had the misfortune
of being on the 'USS Wisconsintration Camp'. Wisconsin had the younger
sibling complex. She could never compete with Iowa for shooting ability,
so they decided they would out clean Iowa. Cleanliness was important on
Iowa, but not as important as shooting ability. Iowa set shooting records
that NO
other capital ship in any navy, at any time could match. No brag, just
fact. Look at the Battle E's and hashmarks on Iowa's bridge and then try
to
find the Battle E on Wisconsin's. You won't find one. But she was a clean
ship. I hope I have not stirred the pot, and I certainly don't want the
wrath of fellow shipmates on my head or computer. I would never say
anything bad about NN.
FC1 (SW) Steven Grubbs
USN Ret.
Message sent by: "Peden World Headquarters" peden@together.net
I would respectfully argue, that what Steven refers to as
"class" has more to do with the appearance of an operating ship
versus a museum piece. Surely, the two ships were close to mechanically
identical. I can recall the Newport News as a meticulously maintained
vessel with all
bright work highly polished, lifelines of pure white, covers in place on
all gun muzzles, decks that you could eat off after holy stoning.
Her lifeboats, crew's launches, Captain's Gig, and Admiral's Barge were
bedecked with McNamara's lace woven by Boson's in their spare time with
the
skill of a master. I used to watch them with sheer fascination. Hundreds
of men rose before dawn to wash her down and the sound of chipping hammers
could be heard somewhere aboard her all day long. The hard work of the
Deck Divisions was infectious. When I made FTG/3, I was awarded
charge of one of the 3" battery MK56 Gunfire Control Systems as a
prize. We went on the beach and with our own money bought Simonize wax,
civilian 100 watt light bulbs, and bleach. We then waxed and polished the
computers, console, and amplifier cases until they shined, turned the
brass work into pure gold with Brasso, and bleached the gray rubber deck
mats back to pristine condition, and when you threw the switch, the
place positively dazzled the eye. We never had less than a 4.0 on
Captain's inspection, even if we had to work all night to do it. Put
a thousand men on the Salem today, give them a year and a hundred chipping
hammers, a ton of red lead, a tank car of navy gray paint, a mile of
canvas, and a couple of dozen Boatswain mates to oversee the operation,
and she'd be running over with "class". I haven't visited
the Salem yet, but I'm a-gonna... and when I do, I'll simply tell my wife
and daughter,
"This is my ship..."
Jim Peden, FTG/3
Fox 60-62
Message sent by: John Noll jcn1@cyberportal.net
Well guys, on June 25th I met two old shipmates, Al Siegel and Doug
(Steve) Schumejda in Quincy Mass., and together with our families, we
spent four hours climbing all over the USS Salem (CA-139). The three
of us were all ETs aboard the News from 1966 to 1970 and made the
first two 'Nam cruises. There is an amateur radio club that
maintains the radio spaces and equipment aboard her, and they gave
us a special tour of those spaces as well. Stepping on board the
Salem was like stepping back in time, what a rush! Sure, there are
differences from the News, but not enough to spoil the illusion. What a
thrill to walk those decks again with my old shipmates, and our wives and
children. Words can never adequately describe the emotions I felt, I could
almost feel her move through the sea, almost hear the b'osun's pipe,
almost smell the galley. It was so neat. Sitting on a hatch on the fantail
I could remember nights, long ago, sailing through tropical waters in both
the Pacific and the Caribbean, the stars stretching from horizon to
horizon, and so bright you could read a book. I could see the masts
swaying back and forth across the heavens, not a light showing on the
ship, hearing the water move along the sides and the steady hum of those
powerful engines. There was/is nothing like being at sea aboard a Capital
Ship of the Line. If you are within visiting distance of Quincy Mass., you
HAVE to go see her.
Check out these two sites.
http://www.uss-salem.org/salem/
http://www.ziplink.net/~rcal/salem/index.html
John Noll ETN-2
OE div. 1966 to 1970
USS Newport News (CA-148)
Message sent by: "steven grubbs" sgrubbs@dnsonline.net
John,
I know how you feel. When I first walked around Salem when she was still
in Philly, I had the same exact feelings. Only then all I had was a
flashlight and was on the ship by myself. The biggest difference I found
between NN and Salem was that NN had class. She wasn't as pretty as Salem
but I'm not sure what it is. Kinda like the difference between a brand new
pair of Corfams and a well broken in and comfy pair of sneakers. Salem has
no personality of her own. NN had style. That style was given to her by
her crew. You know the saddest part of Salem and Des Moines is that there
is NO good reason why those ships can not be modernized and returned to
service.
I don't feel quite so bad about NN passing because she was a well used
ship that saw more commissioned service than any other real cruiser the
Navy ever bought. But Salem and Des Moines only had 9 and 11 years of
service. I guess that is better than the Alaska, CB 1 and Guam, CB 2 that
went to scrap with 18 and 24 months of service. And even NN still had 20
more years
left in her, properly maintained. If you thought going to sea on NN was a
kick, you should have gone to sea with me on Iowa and Wisconsin!!!
Steve
Message sent by: "David Holt" WhiteRook2@prodigy.net
thought I would offer my two cents worth. I left the news on a helo in Nov
of 72. I had not seen her since. In the summer of 99 I was at a meeting in
Qunicy, Mass and when I left it, I
knew I was going UA. I went to the Salem. When I rounded the corner and
saw her my pulse raced. I approached the main deck and was told I had to
wait for a tour group. Without saying anything I was then told to go
ahead....... I walked all over the Salem. The smells came back to me so
fast. I'm sorry we could not save our ship. I am glad I can smell the
smell and look at a great ship that was never tested. I respect my fellow
shipmates. We did more than talk.
I am glad the Salem is a short two hours away. She is not the battle
tested News. But don't miss going.
My respects to you all. I hope life has been kind. Take care.
David Holt
7th Nov 71 - Nov 72.
Message sent by: "Warren White" warren7white@cwp.net.pa
Hi Guys,
I have been reading the discussions on whose mom is prettier and my dad is
bigger than your dad is. Well, I think we are missing the point whether we
are talking about the Missouri, Wisconsin, New Jersey, Iowa, Newport News,
Salem, Boston or Little Rock because they were all roses and beauty is in
the eyed of the beholder. When we made the North Atlantic cruise in 1966
and at our last stop in Portsmouth, England. We tied up on a pier where
and old dingy warehouse stood but in the other side of that were the mast
of a tall ship. I took the
tour on that ship, her name is HMS Victory and I thought when I saw her in
plain view, How beautiful. All the ships I named above are just as
beautiful in their own respective ways and if the opportunity was given to
all of them their own individual personalities would come through. For it
is the crew and command that makes a ship what she is. Without bringing
any names to light the CO we had on the NN in I believe part of 1965 and
1966 was a horses patuty and I wouldn't have given you two cents for
another days existence aboard the ugliest ship in the US Navy the
Newport News. That 92s when we laid off the cost at West Palm Beach and
were told we could look at the fun city and we weren't going ashore
because the surf was up. I could see all the civilian pleasure fishing
boats all around us and we weren't big enough or bold enough to go ashore
in the liberty boats.
The Admiral saved the day; we all got to shore on his helicopter. Now him,
the admiral, he was and I hope still is a sweetheart. I best remember him
on that day tooling down port side deck in his T-shirt, Bermuda shorts and
shower shoes and stopping to ask what we men were in line waiting for. We
told him we were hoping to go ashore when the Captain though the ocean was
safer. He steamed forward, making all ahead full and in a short time we
heard over the 1MC for the flight crew to lay to the flight deck, I was in
the second party to go ashore. I do have many fine memories as well as bad
ones and combined they all make what I now see, a beautiful ship, the
Newport News CA-148.
Thanks mates for hearing me out.
Message sent by: "Gary McIntyre" gmcint2827@hurricane.net
As a shipmate of the Newport News 60-63 as a GMG3 in turret #3 may I tell
all of you she was a lady and yes the crew and the officers made her the
lady she was. My time aboard her for the most part, was the best time of
my life. I know the rest of you have you memories of her, when I found out
that she had been put down part of me went down with her. Yes the good
times and the bad. Many more good times than bad The time we were the
largest man of war to ever go up the Keel canal. When we were in a storm
in the North Atlantic. When the surface ready box
was torn from the main deck and slid down the port side with live 3"
ammo in it. when she would hold proud as she took all that Mother Nature
could throw at her and still she came through for the men that sailed on
her. To stand at attention on her main deck in dress Blues or whites as we
entered a new port. And how proud you felt. riding this lady. To fire her
8" guns knowing that you made her the best with her Gold E and three
Gold hash marks on turret 3. and for all the other E's and hash marks that
adorned her To walk her decks at night and see all the stars and feel the
salt water spray on your face to smell the ocean as she sailed proudly on,
on to what ever lay ahead for her and the men that served on her. To feel
her rocking you to sleep as you tried to rest for the next day. For when
your time was up, and you were leaving her for the last time, looking back
she seemed to say thank you for giving me some of your youth. All of them
are ladies from DE's to BB's. To bad they had to put her down. Sail on
lady.
Gary P. McIntyre GMG3 USS.Newport News Ca 148
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 23:05:54 EDT
From: Oldchief1@aol.com
Subject: Beauty is in the Eyes of the beholder
The Oklahoma City, named after my home town, was not the beauty that NN
was but she came to a more glorious end. She was towed out to sea to
become a target. It took two days of shooting and then only went down when
the sub came in and put torpedoes into her. (The only thing that would
have been better is if they had brought the new Oklahoma City {a sub} in
to finish her
off. I think it would have taken even more fire power to take out NN. Oh
well, we will never know. Anyway, that would have been a better finish
than the way she went down. Kind of like the USS Oklahoma. Capsized at
Pearl Harbor she was beyond repair. After laying on the bottom, upside
down, for two years she was finally righted and sold for scrap. She
refused to go before the salvage goons. While being towed to the West
Coast she parted her tow line and sank toe the bottom. A much more fitting
end for a fighting ship than the scrap yard. NN was one of three ships I
was on and without a doubt she was the best. She just looked like a ship
of the line should look like.
Rick Stone, 67-69
I don't know for sure how many warships have passed
through the Kiel canal, but this one thing I know for sure, it was a
beautiful sunny day for a ride in the country side. I remember all the
people waving and some of us throwing our white hats to the girls on shore
and scrambling to get them back with address's and phone numbers written
on them. I remember also how the other ships from other nations as they
passed by would first dip there colors to us and after we acknowledged
them raise theirs back up. I remember a lot of other things about that
trip aboard that great ship and thank God for them. It was a privilege and
honor to
have served my country aboard her.
Warren & Ruth Anne Sandgren
Anchor48@Erols.com
Message sent by: DennisPall@aol.com
Yes, I paid nine cents a pack for cigarettes (1957). Also when I wanted to
buy a Polaroid camera (new in those days) for $65 and the ships store was
sold out, I had to settle for a 35 mm Argues C3 (new at that time) for a
few bucks less. I still have that camera today. I was working in the
laundry when I was aboard the NN in 1957 and remember SH1 Black charging
all the crew 25 cents for a special press job on their liberty whites and
fifty cents each for the jar-heads shirts, anyone remember that. I never
received any of this Cumshaw but found my rewards in the
washing machine i.e. change, bills, lighters, rings, etc..SH1 Black got
caught and spent the entire 57 Med cruise confined to ship (not in the
brig) and wound up getting a General Court Martial back in Norfolk upon
arrival from the cruise. Most of the PO's (rednecks, no offense) were
involved in this and thought "I" was with G2 because I had a
tattoo with the date of 1953 and thought me to be different. I did get
that tattoo in 1953 in the Bowery in NY when I was 14 only because it was
part of the initiation to get into a gang in Jersey City.
What memories.
Dennis Pallister
Message sent by: John Noll jcn1@cyberportal.net
I stood my very first ever Shore Patrol in Olongapo City. Me and my
partner reported to SP headquarters right by the gate, and were shown the
pictures of dead SPs with bird cages around their heads. We were told all
the horror stories, and then they took the two of us out into
the outskirts of the city and stationed us in front of a skivvy house and
told us "don't let any sailors in there", and we will come by
every 20 or 30 minutes to check on you. We had the 20:00 to 24:00 watch,
by 22:30 we hadn't seen them yet and the local hoodlums were harassing us.
The Olongapo cops came by and beat the tar out of the kids but still no
permanent SPs to check on us. Then the power went out, which meant we were
in the dark. Back came the kids, going to get even for us sicing the cops
on them. About this time my partner, who was senior, decides to "go
phone SP headquarters and get us some backup". Of course the only
phones are back in town, so off he goes. By the time the SPs finally came
back for me (my partner never came back to our post) I was so scared, I
could hardly stand up.
John Noll ETN-2 66-70
Message sent by: "Peden World Headquarters" peden@together.net
We dropped the hook off Thessalonica, Greece, near Athens. The Plan of the
Day had warned us against a local drink called Ouzo, a perfectly clear
liquor which tasted like licorice. Rumors were that in it's native
variety, it reportedly had more than just alcohol in it. We were ordered
to steer
clear of it.
Naturally, my first night on the beach I had to have a taste. The Greek
bartender looked at me like I was crazy when I asked him if he had any
Ouzo. It's sort of like asking an American bartender if he has any
whiskey. He poured me about 3 fingers in a glass, and then dripped a
little plain water
in on top. The water made the Ouzo turn cloudy, a sort of milky-swirl in
the glass. He seemed amused at my curiosity at that effect.
I tasted it, then belted it down. It rumbled all the way down, and I had
an almost instant buzz, quite mellow, which lasted me most of the evening.
I didn't have another, remembering the effect of my first shooter and
imagining what would happen with a 2nd or 3rd.
The next night, I had Shore Patrol, and after mustering on the landing,
waspleased to learn I had been assigned to the riot squad for the evening.
The riot squad never had anything to do, so I checked in to headquarters
and quickly settled in to a poker game in progress, knowing that my
evening of duty was going to be a vacation.
Within an hour, the call came in for the riot squad. We jumped into a jeep
and hustled down to the landing looking for the "riot". There,
in the center of a ring of people spread out a comfortable distance,
staggered a single sailor, who, we learned, was overdosed on Ouzo and was
taking on all comers. No one wanted to even go near him. He was in a rage,
and considered quite dangerous by those who had already gotten a little
too close.
We managed to jump him and subdue him and get him firmly strapped into a
stokes litter. I cancelled his liberty but didn't put him on report, since
so far he hadn't hurt anyone in my presence, and I always cut the guys on
liberty the most slack I could anyway, knowing that there but for the sake
of slightly better judgment, go I. Still, he was unable to return to his
own ship under his own steam, and I didn't want to haul him in the jeep
down to the permanent SP headquarters lockup, so I told the landing
officer we'd take him back to his ship, no problem. They gave me a motor
whaleboat and crew, and we proceeded to motor him out to his ship, an AK
which was anchored with two others, abreast with a ladder up one and a
crossing bridge connecting the other two. Our prisoner's ship was the
third one over, so we had to board the first one's ladder, then cross over
the middle ship to get to our final destination.
About half-way out to the ships, the kid seemed to be coming around. He
became very repentant, sobbing actually, and apologizing. Then he started
gasping that he couldn't breathe... the straps on the stokes were too
tight. "Too tight, I can't breathe..." over and over until I
took pity on him and
loosened the straps a little. Big mistake.
Half-way up the ladder to the first AK, he started coming out of the
stokes basket, now intent on jumping over the side. Great, I thought. Now
we're all going for a swim. We just barely made it up to the quarterdeck
when he was completely free, jumping for the side rail. I grabbed him and
put him into a strong armlock from which no mortal could usually escape.
He twisted out of the arm lock, dislocating his own shoulder in the
process. Didn't even seem to faze him. I briefly considered putting him
out of his misery with my night stick, but remembered our training that
it's pretty easy to crush a skull and the night stick used as a club was a
last ditch weapon to be used in mortal self defense only. A burly Bos'n
smashed him in the head with his fist, which sent him down but not out,
but we managed to get him back into the stokes amidst a lot of thrashing
and screaming.
The kid's ship was actually the third ship in the group, and we were so
far only on #1. Two more to go. I had grown tired of messing with him,
wanted to get back to my poker game, so I handed the clipboard to the JOD
and said, "Here, sign here.." the JOD signed the prisoner
receipt, and I and my crew booked it on down the ladder to the whaleboat
and made for the shore, post
haste. 50 yards out, I could hear the JOD screaming at us, "Hey, this
guy isn't one
of mine". "You signed for him, he's yours now..." I yelled
back, motioning the Coxswain to bring it up to full speed ahead.
Ah, sunny, romantic Greece...
I remember it well.
Jim Peden FTG/3 Fox Division 60-62
Message sent by: "Frank Dean" fdean@prodigy.net
It was in a bar in Izmir, Turkey, 1960 or '61. One of the guys in our
division said something to one of the girls and she smacked him pretty
hard. I guess he thought she had over-reacted so he smacked her back. This
started the biggest brawl I can remember. By the time we dragged him out,
everyone seemed to be fighting. The manager was right behind us yelling
and screaming as we encountered 4 SPs. Fortunately, they couldn't
understand him, so we translated that "there was a damn big fight in
the bar, and that they had better hurry and break it up," which they
did while we safely escaped.
Frank Dean
CR Div 60-62.
Message sent by: Dave Lewis davel@mmcable.com
I remember being assigned to work shore patrol at the EM club one night in
Subic. Combine lots of very cheap booze and a couple hundred sailors and
marines in their late teens and early twenties and its a major riot ready
to break out. I think that they assigned the youngest and
skinniest (I probably weighed 125 pounds back in those days) guys to the
club.
Well you know what happened - some Marine from Alabama got in the face of
a sailor from Yankeeland and the butt whippings commenced. It looked just
like an old western movie - beer bottles, chairs, and people were flying
through the air. We hollered to the club manager to call
out the riot squad and waded into the middle of it to try to keep people
from getting killed. BAD MOVE. Today I know that you let the combatants
fight it out until they get tired. Then the loser goes to hospital and the
winner goes to jail.
Fortunately reinforcements arrived and we managed to get the fight shut
down. I seem to recall that they shut the club down for a couple of nights
after that.
Message sent by: Buffet87@aol.com
Thought I would finally put my 2 cents in, particularly after hearing
Rick's story. Pulled SP in Subic in early 1968. While on patrol, went
upstairs to the Cherry or Sherry Club. Asked the bartender for a coke (yes
-- a coke). Got about half way down the stairs when my legs felt like
lead. My partner threw me in a Jeepny, and took me back to the main gate.
They took me straight to sick bay and my temperature was almost 105. Turns
out, the bartender slipped me a Mickie in that coke. Needless to say, we
shut that sucker down for a few days, but they were back in business soon
after. I sure learned a lesson. Should have asked for a nice warm San
Miguel.
Al Siegel
3/67-2/70
This is no shit. Sometime near the end of the second
Westpac cruise, when we were in Yokosuka, myself and another SN were on
the beach in a pretty intoxicated state. We were feeling sorry for
ourselves, and were lamenting the fact that we had spent all of our money
, for the entire cruise, on beer and women. We were trying to figure out
what we were going to bring home to the families for souvenirs, when we
saw a bunch of real neat hand painted signs , about a foot square, nailed
to telephone poles. They had all kinds of Japanese writing on them and
this seemed like the PERFECT gift for mom, dad, sis, aunt Wilma , etc. We
each had grabbed a bunch ,and I also took a cloth print several feet long
which I balled up and stashed under my jumper. We were heading back to the
ship when we ran into our watch section leader, who wanted to buy some
fresh fruit to bring back. We were standing outside an open-air vegetable
market when an older Japanese civilian started to bust our balls about the
signs. My buddy made some tactful reply about Hiroshima, and the next
thing I knew, we were running like hell with this dude chasing us with one
of those big Japanese beer bottles. We had no problem until my buddy
looses his white hat and stops to pick it up . The Jap wings the bottle ,
which misses his head by inches, There was a single ship's SP nearby who
got in between the two of them while my big concern was getting rid of
those stupid signs before the rest of the cavalry showed up.I jumped into
a doorway , which happened to be a bar ( some surprise ) and started to
pull out the cloth under my jumper. The bar was packed with sailors (
another surprise ) who all jumped off their stools and asked if I needed a
hand. I told them no , and ran back out to the street, where there was a
crowd of at least 50 people swarming around the Japanese civilian and the
poor SP, who had his stick out and was waving it at the Jap to keep him
away from my friend. About two seconds later the hard hats showed up with
a paddy wagon , without saying a word , they grabbed my friend by the
collar and the ass ,and bodily threw him in the back of the wagon - where
two other drunks were beating the piss out of each other . They slammed
the back doors and drove off into the sunset, This whole scenario took all
of maybe one minute to play out. My buddy ended up with two weeks
restriction, but we went back to the gunline the next day ,so he didn't
care. We still get together from time to time and have a laugh over this
and other antics.
Steve Raymond - CS Div 68-70
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